Interview of Qiu Zhijie

Place: Qiu Zhijie's Studio in Fei Jia Cun

People: Qiu Zhijie, Petra Jason, Cao yongjie, Gu Hualin

Cao: It's a great honor to be able to have an interview with you today. Mr. Qiu, I'd like to know how you got involved with the Artist Link programme. Were you invited or you got this information yourself?

Qiu: It is Li Qiaoqian who talked me into the whole thing. Currently in Beijing the market for art is blooming and every artist is very busy for people come to them for art work every day. It seems like a lost if I leave Beijing for other places, such as teaching in Hang Zhou. But there is some problem in this thriving city that seems to be thriving with numerous opportunities. In fact I do think it necessary to leave Beijing regularly to do things less commercial. That's why I go to Hang Zhou and do some teaching there for six weeks every year. And that means I am still with art though physically away from the hustle and bustle of Beijing. I do not have a specific plan of where to go though.

I got an unexpected call from Li Qiaoqian, who bought my three books published as a set in 2003. She asked me whether I was interested in participating in the Art Link programme because she, after reading my books, thought I was very qualified for it. I was quite hesitant then because there was not such a thing that I must do or must not do. So I said, “OK, post your work to me. I'd like to have a look.” And that's how the whole thing got started. Normally London is the must place to go if you visit Britain instead of staying in the remote small village for such a long time. But I said, “It's cool. Let's go.” So it's Li Qiaoqian's work that made my visit of Britian reality.

I hadn't expected Dartington to be such a good college before I went there. I even had not thought about what I was going to do in Dartington. I wanted to be in a quiet place where I could clear up my mind. Actually I just wanted to take a vacation there because it must have a beautiful landscape and the life rhythm is slower than that in London, Beijing and Shanghai. I can do some thinking and do some editing work to an important book. My work in Dartington conflicted with my preparation for the Tri-annual Exhibition in Guangzhou. But on a second thought, I guess it's how life works----because what I did in Dartington and for the Tri-annual Exhibition in Guangzhou are both trans-time and space. As an artist, you have to solve such problems whether you meet them involuntarily, or you are pushed to face them or you choose to confront these problems yourself. The certain environment you are in would become one of the sources of your creation. You have to solve the problems in the process of creation. That's how I went to Dartington. I was pushed and moved by Li Qiaoqian.

Cao: Is it true that Li Qiaoqian was doing her own programme out there?

Qiu: The dean of the college is a fan of China. You know that college is not as internationalized as London. The white people constitute the majority with very few colored people. Li Qiaoqian is the only Chinese and one of the two Asians on campus. But fortunately she becomes the favourite of the dean among all the post-graduates because, on the one hand, the dean happens to be crazy about China, and on the other hand, she is very good at organization due to her work experience in China. The dean has maintained constant contacts with China so he grows more dependent on Li Qiaoqian. In this sense Li Qiaoqian stands out among the postgraduates. It seems that this college took the initiative to participate when Artist Link was about to lunch this programme. I think they are good, and perhaps the best among all the organizations involved in the Artist Link. Their participation also leads to many other events. Anyway, their college does play a very important role in this programme.

Gu: Before you went there, had you planned to finish any work there?

Qiu: Yes, I had a plan. But when I got there, I found that my original plan was not feasible. According to the materials provided by Li Qiaoqian, Devon has something to do with porcelain, which has always been my interest. So my original plan was to make some ceramic tiles first, then draw a picture on each of them, and finally glue them onto a wall to make the whole as an animated picture. The reason why I had wanted to do this is related to the exported business of China porcelain. But it turned out that the place where they make the porcelain is different from my imagination. Another plan is that I hope I can …. Let me put it this way. I do multi-media performance and live art in China; and I know this college is very good in its major of theatre and very effective in trans-field collaboration according to the materials posted by Li Qiaoqian. So we both want some interaction in this area. For instance, to see what can be achieved by working with the students majoring in theatre. But when I got there, I found that I could get it done in six weeks. My visit almost approached its end when the people there got to know me and those who were interested in me began to talk about the work with me. Six weeks is much too short for collaboration. But I think this time is much better.

Cao: Could you tell us how you develop effective collaboration with the students there and give some introduction of the works you have achieved?

Qiu: I was impressed with their arrangements for me. They took me to visit museums and porcelain collection, for I had asked them before. It is the unplanned part that turned out to be a great motivation for me. You have been in the Space of Long March and saw the work of Camouflage Lion, which was finished at the end of September in Yokohama before my visit to Britain in November. The essence of the series of works about camouflage is in fact a discussion of cultural relations and Sino-Japan relations, for example, how Chinese people in China Town in Yokohama have interactions with the local Japanese culture while maintaining an independent identification. Under some circumstances, they would turn to be an army in ambush. China Town thus becomes a target of observation and an ambiguous gray area. Before I went to Dartington, I had been thinking about camouflage. But I didn't expect to go back to this issue there. The first unexpected thing was that “wow, they have milk cows here!” I said jokingly to Li Qiaoqian when I saw the milk cow, “The milk cows are not in harmony with the environment at all. Normally animals which live on grass will take on a green color as camouflage color. But milk cows are in striking black and white, which is obviously not beneficial to survival. They are actually artificial crossbreed.” The second unexpected thing is that there are layers of leaves on the ground. Camouflage is everywhere. With these two surprises, I found myself not interested in the porcelain they showed to me. I was taken to visit “Eden Project” ------- a big greenhouse with various plants, where I noticed the great importance that the Britain people have attached to gardening. It seems a British man who does not know how to do gardening is not a real man. I knew nothing about the gardening in Britain. So my only demand when I was in Dartington was the access to Internet. I read a lot online and got to know that there are two things that must be contained in the culture of gardening. One is the definition of what nature is and the other is its close relations with colonialism--- Britain used to have colonies worldwide, which enabled them to transplant various species back into Britain. That has something to do with museums and natural museums. This issue greatly raised my interest. When I was in Dartington, I also cared for my work in China and wrote up a very important article on Chinese calligraphy. I participated in a symposium on calligraphy before my trip to Dartington and heard the saying that Chinese calligraphy must take the road of how Japanese contemporary calligraphy develops. I totally disagree with that opinion. So I wrote up this article. When I was writing and looking at the grassland out of the window, the words in Evolution and Ethics by Huxley quoted in an article written by Lu Xun suddenly occurred to me: It may be safely assumed that, two thousand years ago, before Caesar set foot in southern Britain, the whole country-side visible from the windows of the room in which I write, was in what is called "the state of nature." Except, it may be, by raising a few sepulchral mounds, such as those which still, here and there, break the flowing contours of the downs, man's hands had made no mark upon it; and the thin veil of vegetation which overspread the broad-backed heights and the shelving sides of the combs was unaffected by his industry. I kept thinking of how those various species competed with each other for survival while I was writing. Actually the environment where I did the writing had some resemblance with that where Huxley wrote his Revolution and Ethics --- both in a wild field somewhere in the southwest of England. He mentioned how t he native grasses and weeds contended with one another for water, soil and nutrition. The sentence “they (the native grasses and weeds) fought against the droughts of summer and the frosts of winter” means that they have to fight against the wind above and against the insects beneath. And this shifted my attention to the consideration of nature and revolution, which goes naturally with the idea of camouflage. And camouflage is a result of revolution and of species selection; it is also a constant process of self-remodeling. All these thinking became the guide lines of the research in Dartington. Later I saw the milk cows and got to know that they are artificial crossbreeds of black cows and white cows in Dutch. My way of doing the work goes like this. The main part of it is a fresco, of which I made a copy when I was back here. On the fresco, there are milk cows, zebras, penguins. I also collected many leaves which have something to do with the camouflage uniforms. I dyed some of the leaves into black and white and put them on the ground in the shape of a milk cow. I also put a football beside. On the opening ceremony, a visitor kicked the football which sent the mosaic milk cow back into a pile of leaves. On the wall was pasted the information of how the milk cows have evolved. Of course the choice of this topic is related with the mad cow disease in Britain as well, which also has something to do with evolution. In fact after the appearance of mad cow disease, the minister of American Agriculture Department made a suggestion that a label of DNA should be attached to every milk cow. You can imagine the massive scale of an art work because of that. The space for exhibition is usually not big; otherwise I would have shown a much bigger and more complex work.
Cao: It's so amazing and fantastic that several seemingly irrelevant things are linked to each other because of your logic.

Qiu: You are right. This experience is fantastic, but you have to have the ability to link them together. The local people take great delight in talking about Xu Zhimo. But when I was in the library in Dartington, I found no interesting and meaningful information about him at all. I chanced upon a letter from L.K.Elmhirst (he used to be the secretary of Tagore) to Song Meiling, the wife of Jiang Jeishi, the then president of Kuomintang, who invited her to visit the beautiful Dartington and explore the possibility of promoting rural construction in China. He even dreamed of founding a similar art college in China. In his letter, Elmhirst said, “Gen Yan xishan of Shan Xi Province has offered me an opportunity to do such social experiment.” Song Meiling wrote back in good English on the letter paper from the headquarters of Jiang Jieshi. She said that she would like to take a trip to Dartington and hold an interest in Elmhurst's plan; but the top priority of China then was to realize industrialization. I put this letter on the wall of the studio. When the British people saw it, they would say, “Well, the first lady seemed very interested …” I said, “No. It's the way how Chinese decline. That our top priority was industrialization means that we were not interested in your suggestion.” Of course this is also closely connected with the concept of evolution, which manifests itself also in camouflage, leaves and milk cows. Huxley's Evolution and Ethics actually is a theory of evolution, translated into Chinese by Yan Fu, another important figure in Chinese history. He was a good friend with Ito Hirobumi in British Naval College. Yan Fu was the top one graduate but he was not put in an important position by the Qing Dynasty. Ito, on the other hand, Ito Hirobumi led his Japanese navy to defeat Chinese in the first China -Japan war in 1894. Spurred by this event, Yan Fu began to translate Evolution and Ethics and the works on democracy. He later became a translator and the first headmaster of Beijing University. These are linked with my idea of dealing with Sino-Japan relations and   Yang Wu Pai (people who advocated reforms in Qing Dynasty), which coincidentally got connected with the letter to Song Meiling. It's not a mere coincidence though. But anyway, a complete system of ideas was thus formed.

Cao: When you collaborated with the students of Dartington College of Art or when you communicated with them about your whole system of ideas on evolution, agriculture and rural construction, did they have the same misunderstanding as they did when reading Song Meiling's letter?

Qiu: No, they didn't. Unlike the opening ceremony in China during which you have to rush to go through 20 exhibitions in one afternoon in 798, the art space, there is only one exhibition room in which only one piece of art work is shown. It's very quiet. Visitors would spend about 20 minutes reading very carefully the documents, so they basically have a good understanding. The problem is that most of their attention is attracted by my paintings because few people draw paintings there. They were very much amazed that I only spent 5 days in finishing a picture like that. They'd focus on something that I take for granted.

Cao: Do you think there is any difference between your way of working and their way of doing art and curation?

Qiu: Sure. But that's definitely not the problem with Dartington. It is instead a difference with the students of the colleges of art in the whole Europe and America. Generally speaking, the contemporary art works in China are really fun. You can see many rich layers in one work, in which both people and society are complicatedly involved together. Their works on the other hand are, in most cases, much too plain. Even one single idea or experience could be made a work; under such circumstances, they will go much further to make it complete and dedicate. Our way of doing art is usually complicated. We provide the work against a much bigger background. So our works always look unfinished, for you can always add something new. Actually it's not a matter of which is better and which is worse. It's only a difference of scale. I watched the performance of the postgraduates majoring in theatre. I like it very much. It's really good.

Cao: This College attaches great importance to trans-field collaboration, for example between visual art and theatre. Before you went there, or after you were there, have you considered doing something with this kind of collaboration?

Qiu: Yeah, I do. I have been discussing the possibility. But it's extremely hard when you really do it.

Cao: I know you always have an interest in the issue of Chinese and Western cultures. Does this visit bring some new ideas to your way of dealing with this issue? Or does this visit further prove your original thought?

Qiu: I stick to my ideas, though there are some subtle changes. And the visit does prove some of my ideas. I have always maintained that the West is an imagination of the Chinese people. There is not a physical entity named the West. And inside the so-called West, there exist many differences too, for instance, the British are not the same as the German. When I was doing workshop for the students there, I asked them to write 20 key words that they assumed to be related to China. Guess what, I found such words as kimono and ninja in their lists. It's really ridiculous.

There are some misunderstandings of Chinese and Japanese cultures. As far as the art circles in China are concerned, the Chinese artists know very well what's going on with the art in the world. But the British artists know nothing about China. That's good, for we are the learners. We make greater progress because we have more knowledge of the world. The very thing that brings some changes to my mind is that I found museum plays a very important role in Britain. Museology has penetrated into the daily life of the British people as well as the cultural policies of the government. That's an important basis of the power of discourse in Chinese art circles, and that's what we should learn. It does not make much sense to talk about China and the West in a superficial way. For example, which part should we put Arabia and Africa? Does Latin America belong to the East or the West?

Actually many issues remain unchanged. Take rural construction for example. Elmhurst took the idea of rural construction in Dartington from Tagore. Elmhurst founded Peace University in Bengal before going to Dartington. The issue of rural reconstruction is a problem for India as well as Britain and China. How to reconstruct the rural areas in the process of modernization remains unsolved. A teacher of my university named Hong Ganxin, who now teaches in the west coastline of America, once asked me, “What would you do if you had enough money?” Many people would say that they wish to set up more elementary schools for Hope Project. But I said I wished to make a social experiment by choosing two small countries in Africa, one governed by dictatorship, another by democracy, to see which one develops better financially. It's also a social experiment to conduct plural marriage and polygamy in two groups of people. Of course, I am just kidding.

I used to be interested in rural construction in the hope that many problems could be solved by doing social experiment. And my interest gets revived here. The reason why I call my studio in China Academy of Art Studio of General Art is directly related to the concept of rural construction. The trans-field collaboration in Dartington and its relations with Black Mountain College are both connected with my concept of general art. When I was there, I found myself the most qualified person from Chinese art circles because of my interest in theatre and live art, and my training in synthetic art, trans-field collaboration and general art, which lead to other sequential events. I have a studio in the approaching art festival held in Song Zhuang. The theme I came up with for this festival is to do experiment of new rural cultures. I will do an installation exhibition there, discussing problems like rural reconstruction in China, share holding reform ， and the system of mass art center. I also have contact with Xiaoqian to see whether it's feasible to do an exhibition to show the information about Black Mountain College and Dartington College of Art. Song Zhuang is a typical county for its way of rural construction changes because of the interference of artists. Now there is much interaction between the government of this country and us. We go to them for land, and they come to us for help to integrate the cultural ingredients into the process of their rural construction. You can see that the two policies ------- new rural areas and creative industry---- are embodied in this place. Currently I am talking about this with Xiaoqian. There is no enough time to do such an exhibition, but we can do it in a long run.

Cao: Your current contact with Li Xiaoqian is actually a further development of the programme. The visit is finished, but the influence just begins.

Qiu: Absolutely. Song Meiling refused Elmhurts' suggestion of doing rural construction in China. But we can do it now.

Cao: The influence must be far-reaching if you continue to make efforts with it.

Qiu: You are right. When I was searching online for the contact between Dartington and China, most information was concerned with Xu Zhimo. But to me, the real connection and the most interesting part is the rural construction. I find that currently Chinese academy is focusing their attention again on Liang Shuming and has his several books published for the first time. That's really important because it's the right time for us to concentrate on the rural in order to solve many problems in China. It's been 20 years since the reform and opening up in China. Actually the reform began from the system of contracted responsibility linking remuneration to output in rural China. But the fact is what every one can see as a result of the reform is the skyscrapers in Shanghai. Chinese problems cannot be solved unless the rural issues are properly handled. We can't realize modernization by moving all the countrymen to the city. Once my wife arrived at Dartington, she understood totally why I became so angry when I was back in China. I told her that the symbol of modernization is how well the people in rural areas live their life instead of the number of the skyscrapers. The city of Shanghai has caught up with New York but its rural area is far worse than that of New York. Modernization can only be fully realized when the problems in the country are solved, and this is another important influence that Dartington has cast on me.

Cao: Can I say that you became suddenly enlightened by the influence of Dartington in terms of the issue of rural construction?

Qiu: No. I have always paid attention to that problem. Before my visit to Dartington, I led my students from mainland and Taiwan to do a social survey in Zhong Shan Park because there is a Zhong Shan Park in every city just as there is a well and an ancestral temple in every village where all the villagers share a same family name. As public space, the ancestral temple correspond to villagers while Zhong Shan Park to urban residents. We need a milestone to commemorate the process of modernization which substitutes for the agricultural society, and the milestone is Zhong Shan Park, which were converted from royal or private gardens. For example, the Zhong Shan Park in Shanghai used to be the private garden of Hogh, the famous British real estate agent in old Shanghai. The Zhong Shan Park in Beijing was originally State Temple. I have found many Zhong Shan Parks and I have always been interested in this topic. I set my long march plan with Lu Jie in they rural areas too. In May this year, I took my students to the Tibetan area in Si Chuan Province to do a survey of paintings on Tibet. The head of the country called me just now, asking me to send my students to help them with the art part in their cultural park.

Cao: OK. Let's talk about the programme itself. Do you think your visit is a big success? Did you accomplish more than what you had expected?

Qiu: I think I did pretty well there. But it's a shame that I have no time to propagandize what I have done in Dartington when I am back in China, for the attention to the rural construction and the contemplation of revolution are really meaningful. The art circles in China now are pretty commercial. Every one is drawing the big face painting school . Every one is busy talking about auction. I myself also get involved in some curation work when I am back. But I am trying to do something with some connection to Dartington. I went back from Dartington on 19 th , January. 20 days later, I did a drama on the theme of modernization in the old factory of Shanghai, the script of which was written in Dartington. I have kept thinking about this issue. It's just I have no enough time to expand its influence. The real far-reaching impact might be what I have curated for the art festival in Song Zhuang. If I hadn't been to Dartington, I would not have come up with the theme of cultural construction in the rural areas. One of the programme I have curated for Song Zhuang is the Thang-ga (pictures drawn or stitched on paper, silk or cloth) featuring new folk customs in Tibet. Some Thang-ga are no longer only featuring the Buddha. Instead they draw Lama using mobile or riding a motorcycle. I'll take these Thang-ga to Beijing in order to introduce them into the art market. My real purpose is to help them to earn money because if Thang-ga is turned into an art work through the operation in the art market, one piece of Thang-ga will cost several hundred thousand while it only costs several hundred if sold as souvenir. You know the annual fiscal income of the country is only about 3,000,000, less than the price of one painting of an artist in Beijing.

Cao: You have so many things to do. But you cannot afford the time.

Qiu: All these issues are somewhat linked with each other if you think about them more carefully. I do think I did a good job in Dartington. Besides, Xiaoqian is very helpful. Usually you can't count on the people when you are traveling away. But Xiaoqian is really great. When I am back, I do think she should expand her influence.

Cao: That's our purpose of coming here. Our job is to put online your ideas of art and the work you are dedicated to and share them with every college and university and art organization. We even hope the influence could be spread into the whole world to enable more people to know it and get involved.

Qiu: There is another important influence. One important consideration when I promised to go to Dartington is that I felt we rushed everything too much in China, for instance, finishing a work in 10 days and curation in 3 days. Another example is the large-scaled drama (referring to labyrinth , a multimedia drama). I came back on Christmas and had been buried myself into the videotaping, script-writing and rehearsing of the drama until the 19 th , the show time. That's how we do things. The faster, the more economic, the better. That's the characteristic of China, especially of Beijing.

Cao: That's how people in Beijing work? I think it's also the case in Shanghai.

Qiu: No, Shanghai is different. It's more planned and systematical. For example, if a work requires 10 days, they would give you 10 days to allow you to finish it part by part. But in Beijing, they tend to do things in 3 days that are supposed to be done in 10 days. Of course, they can not get things done. People in Guangzhou have the attitude of “let-us-wait-and-see”; they will do more if time permits. Shanghai's way is more like Britain, with much better control. I was thinking at that time that I was too busy and that how happy I would be if I could finish a work in 6 weeks. My visit turned out to be worthwhile. I had enough time to figure out some very delicate ideas. And this year I purposefully maintain that way of working. For example, I declined to take part in any exhibition because I want to concentrate on my current work (a large-scaled installation device in his studio). Many curators have asked me to put it on exhibition, but I usually say, “When I get it finished”. I take it slowly and will put it on display when I think it's ready. I don't want to rush for the mere sake of any exhibition. One enjoyment is that I can see my work grow up. My work was only two cement frusta in the initial stage. When I felt it looked as if I were doing historic research, I put letters and stranger numbers into it. In that way, the work grows into the current state. I'll show it when I think it's done. This is a way of working. You have to slow down. But many people felt strange and asked, “Why not London?”

Cao: Did you feel lonely and bored in that remote village from such metropolis as Beijing and Shanghai?

Qiu: no, I didn't feel bored. If I wanted, I could be in touch with Beijing as long as the communications worked. But I avoided too much contact on purpose. I only told several people my mobile number in Britain. I also finished the script writing (of labyrinth) with my students.

Cao: Do you have any plan to perform the drama again?

Qiu: No. Just for one time.

Cao: You mentioned that Chinese artists know very well about the so-called contemporary art in the West while remain ignorant to Chinese contemporary art. Are they unwilling to know? Or do they think it's unnecessary? Or is there a cultural gap too huge to cross?

Gu: They don't think it necessary. Have you thought of getting to know India?

Qiu: Yes, I do. I spent 6 weeks in India traveling around. I shot 60 hours' video, more than 10,000 pictures and wrote down a diary of more than 90,000 words, which could perfectly make a good book if I want. I did the writing with a serious note. I followed the footprints of Longevity Monk and Siddhattha Gautama. In fact I am not the only one who has done such traveling. But unfortunately you can see none of them on Mo Ganshan Road and in 798 Space.

Cao: For the curious laymen or the young art-lovers, they might possibly cast a look inside without attempting to have a deeper understanding of Chinese contemporary art. Some works, in fact, deserve more careful study.

Qiu: That's right. I am working with several friends on a research of the British image in Indian and Hong Kong movies. In Hong Kong movies, you can always find a British and hear people saying, “yes, sir” all the time. This is a really interesting topic, a research on visual culture. I have a lot of contact with India. The directors from Bombay, for example, would visit me if they come to Beijing. I was asked by a curator from Taiwan about the people he should reach in India. That the Western artists don't know much about China is actually a matter of power of discourse 。 But now they are more willing to open exhibition in China. In the Evergreen Gallery in 798, basically only western artists hold exhibitions in it and I don't think the gallery makes any profit at all. They keep it as an image, or an opportunity to invite more famous artists abroad, who are also eager to have exhibitions in China. Their interest in China might have relations with Chairman Mao, for the artists who gained fame in 60s or 70s are more or less infatuated with Chairman Mao. That's why they would like to hold exhibitions in China. The Evergreen gallery benefits a lot from its collaboration with those foreign artists. And the reason why they come to China is not for the purpose to get to know Chinese artists. Actually some of the interesting works are not shown in 798 or Mo Ganshan Road, which means foreigners do not have the chance to know them at all. But anyway, we have gained some power of discourse compared with the past when we were in a very passive position.

Cao: The first thing they did is to give a lecture after you arrived in Dartington?

Qiu: Yes. You have to introduce yourself first.

Cao: introducing your own works in the PowerPoint?

Qiu: Yes. My PowerPoint is great. They began to think how to introduce their works with PowerPoint after watching mine.

Cao: Didn't they introduce works that way? PowerPoint is widely used.

Qiu ： Yes, they do. But I did it much more professionally. They made a copy of my powerpoint. Just now I mentioned that some foreign artists want to hold exhibitions in China. Because the contemporary art in China has just begun to develop and there are no sound rules and regulations, so what we have considered is what we can get and what we can learn as learners. And I think this way of thinking should be changed slowly. What we should have in mind is not to obtain. Instead we should think what we can provide to them. The British people contribute laws and rules to the world. The French and German also have their share. So we should think what we Chinese can contribute to the whole world from our experience of modernization, our memory of the revolutionary war and the life in socialist country. We have to figure out a unique way in doing modern art, something that can be shared and utilized. We have been heavily dependent on the western way of doing art with the only difference that we use Chinese resources. For example, we drew the portrait of Chairman Mao and drew pandas and Tian Anmen in the scheme of Bop Art. People would say this is a Chinese version of Bop Art or that is a Chinese version of performance art. But they could learn nothing from it. If you want to do something to gain affirmation and applause in the art circles in Europe and America, you have to consider whether you have brought something beneficial to them. Now we are indeed working on such a thing, something that lead to progress, which really deserves attention. I always make an analogy between Chinese modern art and Ping-Pong. British people invented Ping-Pong but it is Chinese people who constantly make innovations. That's why International Table Tennis Federation keeps changing the rules to block China from becoming the champion. We were always the winner with 21 as the winning score, so they changed it into 11. In this sense, Chinese people can be said to change the history of Ping-Pong ------ we are a participant in getting the game moving on. Although British people invented this game, 70% to 80% of the rules of today's Ping-Pong are defined by Chinese. That's why we call it our national ball game. If you want to keep something as your possession, you have to change it instead of being changed. You start as a learner and then become a participant. You can't just study and wait to gain. You must learn to be a giver and contributor, and try your own solution when others meet a problem. Only under such circumstances can you gain real respect. This is a problem that both China and other countries in the third world must face. It's a problem of nationalism and globalization. It's not to attract attention or to trade for benefits. We have to think what the problems of the art in the world are and which experience is the best to solve them. We suggest that they should have a try. At this time, we need to sort out our experiences, for example, to motivate the masses, or to do things anonymously. You have to know that there is no boundary among the works of art. I mentioned the rules of exhibition. This mode of exhibition takes its root from the World Expo, which was originally the idea of the Queen Victoria, who wanted to show to her people how great the empire was by exhibiting things from India, Singapore, South Africa and Hong Kong. This way of doing exhibition leads to the simple and rough way of doing modern art. Traditionally artists would sing together and meet each other, from which something could be abstracted to help correct the unilateralism of the society. In my opinion, “what you can provide for others” is the most important topic.

The interview is sorted out by Cao Yongjie